tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2405672129715557046.post3838722425533427166..comments2010-07-13T08:37:13.974-07:00Comments on Changing Keys: Bribes/Lures and the Great Oreo QuestionLynn Ungarhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12674803547032895797noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2405672129715557046.post-26746522899315145052010-05-25T20:18:14.765-07:002010-05-25T20:18:14.765-07:00Well color me abashed. Now I read the rest of your...Well color me abashed. Now I read the rest of your blog, it's obvious I'm preaching to the preacher when it comes to training. Sorry for being a know-it-all.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17826028900270414347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2405672129715557046.post-91088858315464441572010-05-25T10:26:38.229-07:002010-05-25T10:26:38.229-07:00ooh, good point re: bribe vs. reinforcement. Come ...ooh, good point re: bribe vs. reinforcement. Come to think of it, if the cookies come before, *she's* training *you*. Give her cookies, you get the reinforcing stimulus you desire (her going to class). Then you're more likely to give her the cookies again.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17826028900270414347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2405672129715557046.post-81041202587880156462010-05-25T08:32:44.340-07:002010-05-25T08:32:44.340-07:00Well, I asked Mattea whether she would be taking t...Well, I asked Mattea whether she would be taking the tap class this evening. Her response: (pause) "...Yeah. Will there be cookies?" So, yes, the cookies got her into the class and might make it stick (along with a variety of other factors, including the fact that it's a great class). But it also created the expectation that there would be cookies before class. This often happens with lured/bribed dogs -- if no treat is in evidence, they're not interested in working. The trick with luring dogs is to remove the lure as soon as possible. Maybe there will be cookies tonight, maybe not.<br /><br />Joseph, to your points, you're totally correct about intermittent reinforcement. But bear in mind that the problem of the original oreos is that they were a bribe (before the behavior) rather than a reinforcement (after the behavior). So the best approach might be to show up with a cookie after the class, and randomize from there. I'm hoping the class itself will be sufficiently reinforcing, though, and it's very easy to create the expectation of cookies....Lynn Ungarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12674803547032895797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2405672129715557046.post-53966898477553321642010-05-24T16:31:32.971-07:002010-05-24T16:31:32.971-07:00Not sure how this will help you think about the cu...Not sure how this will help you think about the current situation, but the key concept to making positive reinforcement really work is Intermittent Reinforcement. Start with the puppy. If you offer the treat every single time you ask it to sit, but later stop offering the reward, it will soon stop sitting. If you offer the reward at first to get the behavior going, then start rewarding at random and ever-increasing intervals, soon you'll be able to stop altogether or only reward very sporadically. Or you can shape the behavior. If "sit" is a waypoint towards "sit, down, stay", eventually you should only be rewarding the stay part, and then only for longer and longer intervals. Regardless of your goal, if you do it right, the behavior itself gets associated with the good feelings the reward initially induced, and will happen all by itself. So maybe an experiment worth trying with Tea is, after a couple weeks, "forget" to bring the cookies, or substitue a more nutritious snack you "just happen" to have. Mix it up, so she knows that *sometimes* she'll get the cookies. That might help her over the hump until the dance class is so rewarding of itself that the cookies don't matter.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17826028900270414347noreply@blogger.com